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| Ancient Ruins |
But what is the veracity of this quote and where does it really originate?
There is a general rule of thumb that if you read a quotation online purported to be penned by a famous writer, politician, or philosopher, it is best to be skeptical, especially if the quote is not cited with a reference to an actual book or solid source. Plato said it? Abraham Lincoln said it? Hillary Clinton said it? I'd be wary if the citation is not complete. It has happened to me several times that I found a quote that I liked (and even posted it here) only to later find out that its authorship is unknown.
A Quick Internet Search Has Yielded a Researcher’s Headache
A few years ago, I was an assistant to a political scientist - he needed someone to come to his house in Staten Island to work on a manuscript he was writing about emerging global markets. One job I had was to track down quotes he wanted to use in his book. “Research Solon's remarks about ‘You Greeks are like children’,” he told me. It was a seemingly easy quote to track down because I knew the story from History. Solon did indeed visit Egypt in the Sixth Century B.C.E. But who actually recorded the interchange between the priest and Solon: “You Greeks are like children …”?
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“‘Ah, Solon, Solon, you Greeks are ever children. There isn’t an old man among you.’ On hearing this, Solon said, ‘What? What do you mean?’ ‘You are young,’ the old priest replied, ‘young in soul, every one of you. Your souls are devoid of beliefs about antiquity handed down by ancient tradition. Your souls lack any learning made hoary by time.’” (Timaeus 22 b-c)*
*Plato, and John M. Cooper. Complete Works. Indianapolis: Hackett, 2009. Print.
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The priest goes on to tell a myth that explains why the Egyptians have retained more knowledge than the Greeks - basically, the priest says, the Egyptians have been able to escape both flood and fire raged on humanity by the gods. Where other civilizations advance and learn, they are either destroyed or they forget over time. The priest cites the myth of Phaethon as an example - which reads like the end-scene of nearly every Hollywood disaster movie. Phaethon was the son of Helios: moral of the story is don’t let your son ride your chariot (if you’re a Sun god). All hell will break loose. I look up at the sky and wonder if Plato’s Egyptian priest is right. In talking about creation he ends up talking about destruction. I love that last line and I can imagine an old priest emerging from the group and confronting the statesman Solon with this message. If knowledge is not “handed down by ancient tradition” then we lose the ability to share. And if we lose the ability to share we lose the ability to trust. Learning has not been made hoary by time! And by hoary he means grown over time like a sturdy stick my brothers would use when walking in the woods - nothing could break it.
Thanks for you comment. Yes, I am not sure why it was so difficult to find. But I agree with you that it is a fascinating excerpt from Plato's writings.
ReplyDeletePeople no longer have a classical education for (reasons) so we end up with what we have now - a dark age where barbarians ape the customs of those who built our civilization with generations born who cannot repair, let alone build, what they have inherited.
ReplyDeleteOmg here they go trying to flood doubt around historical figures who spoke truth about these so called “Greeks” who achieved nothingness. They learned EVERYTHING FROM kemet soon they were in position to kick their teachers while they were down they did. And took all the books and put their names and images on them! And be honest for once! He actually said “ you Greeks are like children, always forgetting what we have taught you”. That’s what was said. Then y’all later made it seem like y’all asked him what did he mean by that? And he said he meant that Greeks had young souls? Don’t that sound like a bad clean up job by white people. The kemet priest said exactly what they thought of the Greeks that was studying at their feet. They clearly said that Greeks were child like people! Like a elementary teacher trying to make her students understand and focus long enough to learn something. That’s the Real history of Greeks not this romanticized culture of enlightenment to all mankind!
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing!
DeleteAnonymous on May the 9th , clearly hasn't read the passage and writes not only erroneously but with such animosity against the ancient Greeks.
ReplyDeleteI have read the passage in Ancient Greek. What it actually says is,
"O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are never anything but children, and there is not an old man among you. Solon in return asked him what he meant. I mean to say, he replied, that in mind you are all young; there is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient
tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age. And I will tell
you why. There have been, and will be again, many destructions of
mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by I nnumerable other causes." He then goes on to say, "As for those genealogies of yours which you just now recounted to us, Solon, they are no better than the tales of children.
In the first place you remember a single deluge only, but there were
many previous ones; in the next place, you do not know that there
formerly dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race of men which ever lived, and that you and your whole city are descended from a small seed or remnant of them which survived. And this was unknown to you, because, for many generations, the survivors of that destruction died, leaving no written word."
The priest then went on to say something very remarkable about the early inhabitants of Athens. he said, " Solon marvelled at his words, and earnestly requested the priests to inform him exactly and in order about these former citizens. You are welcome to hear about them, Solon, said the priest, both for your own sake and for that of your city, and above all, for the sake of the goddess who is the common patron and parent and educator of both
our cities. She founded your city a thousand years before ours, receiving from the Earth and Hephaestus the seed of your race, and afterwards she founded ours, of which the constitution is recorded in our sacred registers to be eight thousand years old."
Thanks for offering a more charitable interpretation of the Solon passage from Plato's Timaeus. You have a keen sense for literary critique. Keep up the great work.
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